ERIC ‘RICKY’ MCKINNIE of THE BLIND BOYS OF ALABAMA: WOMAD 2020 Interviews
An interview by Tim Gruar.
It sounds like the plot to a great movie – all be it a long one. A singing group of four blind, African-American singers who began touring in a time of whites-only bathrooms, restaurants and hotels. They sing Gospel, through a time when Jazz and then Pop is the music of the day. Yet they go on to win five Grammy Awards, earn a Lifetime Achievement Grammy; and be inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame. They even get to perform at the White House for three different presidents.
This year, that group returns to New Zealand to headline WOMAD 2020 and I was a somewhat overwhelmed to be able to talk to one of the group’s current members, Eric ‘Ricky’ McKinnie recently about the group and their latest album with Alt-Country singer Marc Cohn.
But before we start, let’s bring you up to speed. Gospel and Blues heroes The Blind Boys of Alabama (which currently includes founding member Jimmy Carter, Eric “Ricky” McKinnie, Joey Williams, Ben Moore and Paul Beasley) are living legends and survivors of history but also modern-day innovators. The original group, also billed as The Five Blind Boys of Alabama or Clarence Fountain and the Blind Boys of Alabama was founded in 1939 in Talladega, Alabama and has featured a changing roster of musicians over its history, the majority of whom are or were visually impaired.
They first sang together as kids at the Alabama Institute for the Negro Blind in the late 1930s, later touring throughout the South during ‘Jim Crow’ era America in the 1940s and 1950s. They carved out a reputation for stunning close-harmony early jubilee Gospel blended with blues and traditional songs. During the ‘60s they sang at benefits for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., contributing to the soundtrack to the Civil Rights movement along with other iconic groups such as The Staples Sisters.
Over the years The Blind Boys have worked with many churches and political organisations. Being heavily involved with the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960’s they’ve seen many changes for Black Americans. And yet America is still going through turbulent times. I ask Ricky what he’s learned from this journey?
“Well, yes that’s true. But everything that’s old is new again. Things run in cycles but in the end I believe everything is going to work out. Because as long as God’s alive and there is faith and spirit in the hearts of men then it will always come right. You have to believe in the spirit of people to do what’s right, despite the evil you see.”
“As far as the future is concerned, as long as we all do our part to communicate – which is what we do in our music, we can all work together. With the Civil Rights Movement and the protests, with all those events, our job was to communicate positive messages so that people had something to fall back on and uplift them. As long as they have that, then everything will turn out right.”
Gospel dropped off in popularity with the rise of Soul and R’n’B during the 60’s and 70’s but the group became popular again in the 1980s when they starred in the Obie Award-winning musical ‘The Gospel at Colonus’.
Ricky says that wasn’t a revival as such. The Blind Boy’s particular brand of Gospel has always had a good measure of ‘Soul’ in it. Is that the secret to longevity of the group, I wonder?
“We’ve always done traditional Gospel. But we know that when people come to our shows they are gonna go away feeling uplifted. If you had a bad day, you’ll go away feeling better because the way we sing we want to touch the heart. Make you smile. Over the many years we have been performing we have learned that people need people. So we just give them what they need! Feed the souls.”
Over their career, they’ve collaborated with numerous artists. I first discovered The Blind Boys Of Alabama when they recorded with Ben Harper (‘There Will Be A Light’ – 2004) and was totally blown away by the power and strength of their collectively unique voices. That was only one moment. In 2001 they released ‘Spirit of the Century’ on Peter Gabriel’s Real World label which mixed traditional church music with material by Tom Waits and the Rolling Stones. That won them the first of their Grammys. They’ve also featured on Gabriel’s ‘Up’ album and toured with him, too. You may know about their collaborations with Robert Randolph, Aaron Neville, Mavis Staples, The Preservation Hall Jazz Band, Allen Toussaint and Willie Nelson. Or more recent works with Merrill Garbus of tUnE-yArDs, Patty Griffin, Justin Vernon and Taj Mahal.
Ricky tells me that “Performing for President Obama (was a highlight), and we’ve done so many other concerts. The people are always the reason we do these. But what stands out the most was receiving a lifetime award from the Grammy Association – on that night to be recognised for our work. That was a real pinnacle! Because you know that what we do really matters. It was real recognition that we don’t have a handicap, it’s about what we can do. Nobody is judging us for a disability.”
Three years ago they released ‘Almost Home’ on their own BBOA Records label, with the help of Marc Cohn, featuring a 12-song survey of their seven-decade career involving a range of producers and featuring two of the (then) surviving original members – Clarence Fountain (who has since passed away), and their current vocal leader, Jimmy Carter. In 2019 they reunited with Cohn and his long-time producer, John Leventhal, to make ‘Work To Do’.
If Marc Cohn isn’t familiar to you, then you need to check out his self-titled, platinum-selling 1991 album, which nabbed him a Grammy for Best New Artist. That includes the huge hit ‘Walking in Memphis (which also appears on ‘Work To Do’). The start of Cohn’s work with the Blind Boys was song writing with producer Leventhal on soul artist William Bell’s album ‘This is Where I Live’. Ricky confirms that the Blind Boys and Cohn had the same manager, “Leventhal and Cohn were sent videos of interviews with Jimmy Carter and Clarence Fountain talking about their lives”. That inspired Cohn to write material around those, giving the Blind Boys opportunity to sing songs about their own struggles.
The resulting album was 2017’s ‘Almost Home’ – which spawned the Grammy-nominated tune ‘Let My Mother Live’. That led to a long run of collaborative 2018 shows featuring Cohn and the Blind Boys.
For the latest album, they’d planed to do a Cohn/Blind Boys EP with just two new compositions – Cohn and Leventhal’s ‘Talk Back Mic’ and Cohn’s self-penned ‘Work to Do’ plus the Golden Gate Quartet classic ‘Walk In Jerusalem’. The last one being a staple of the Blind Boys’ live repertoire.
However, that song list grew by seven more after some stunning live performances, which they did at the Katharine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center (Old Saybrook, CT). “We did this as part of a taping for the PBS series call ‘The Kate’. We were going originally going to do an EP with just some studio tracks, but when you heard the live ones…well, they had to go on it …” However, the musicians’ rousing appearance before this really enthusiastic audience made it so much more special, sparking the decision to incorporate the extra material.
Those songs from the TV show wereThe Blind Boys at the height of their powers, adding spine-tingling layers of soul and vocal textures to numbers like Cohn’s mega-hit ‘Walking in Memphis’, alongside his other classics: ‘Ghost Train’ and ‘Silver Thunderbird’ and ‘Baby King’, as well as ‘One Safe Place’ from ‘Marc Cohn Live (,2005) and ‘Listening to Levon’ (‘Join the Parade, 2007).
But the biggest hit on the album was a version of ‘Amazing Grace’, sung with 1000 ft deep harmonies, and arranged to the tune of the Animals’ ‘House of The Rising Sun’, giving it infinitely more drama (the song was brought to the group by John Chelew, producer of their 2001 crossover hit album ‘Spirit of the Century’).
“We’ve actually been doing that for a while live. We took it from our first album and we did about seven from various records over the years. Marc helped us on a couple of tours. We taught him a good old a capella gospel song, ‘Walking in Jerusalem’, which he loved and wanted to rework some of our material based on what he’s learned from us.”
The most unique feature, though was the ‘live; in-studio’ recordings of Cohn’s songs. “Yeah, and we do them live. No over dubs or individual parts recorded after. Because you have to feel the vibes and get the notes as a group, together. Headphones aren’t enough. You have to do it like you are all on stage together as one unit.”
“We did these while we were on tour around the States with Marc. (We) did several takes from the stages, all over the place, on the road and we took the best of the best for the record.”
The Blind Boys live all over the country these days. So coming together in one rehearsal space is not really possible. Not that they need it. “We’ve always rehearsed during sound checks and on the road.” Says Ricky, “Sometimes before a gig in a green room or somewhere like that. But we are a live group. It all comes on the fly mainly. Sure, everyone has to rehearse. If you make a mistake then everyone knows. But we’ve been doing it so long that we can do that and just correct it and move on.”
Ricky lost his sight due to glaucoma at age 23, but had been playing drums for a whole range of artists and groups for over a decade prior to hooking up with The Blind Boys of Alabama. He joined in 1990, however, he tells me his own history with the group actually goes right back to when he first met The Blind Boys when he was about five years old. His mother (Sarah McKinnie Shivers) was also a singer and often crossed paths with The Blind Boys whilst on tour, and then many times after that.
In 1978, he started Ricky McKinnie Singers, with his mother and brother, performing at places like the Georgia Mountain Fair, Six Flags over Georgia and various church events. They also recorded for a New Orleans label, Southland Records, and supported well known gospel singers such as James Clevelend. He’s also well known for a popular radio show called ‘The Angelic Sound of the Ricky McKinnie Singers’ which began airing in 1979 on WXAP in Atlanta, and his show ‘Words and Music for Your Soul’ which often features his mother (that still airs on another station, WYZE). In the 1980s he did more radio and television, including ‘Rock with Ricky’, but was forced to shelve this when he joined The Blind Boys of Alabama. In addition to performing, Ricky also runs Quality Sound Management, an Atlanta recording studio that has recorded the likes of Robert Brown and Angie Stone. In 2003, he acted as The Blind Boys’ tour manager as they performed here in New Zealand and still helps out as road manager.
“I started out about 40 years ago, and sometimes I was playing alongside The ‘Original’ Boys of Alabama. What made me want to join is their legacy. My motto is: “I’m not blind, I just cant see.” What I mean is I may have lost my direction but with them I can help find it, and help others, too. The thing about the Blind Boys is that a disability is just a limitation and we all have limitations but that doesn’t stop us. It’s not about what you can’t do, it’s about what you can do that makes a difference. That’s what keeps me going, knowing if you can dream the dream, do the work, keep the faith, everything’s gonna be all right.”
Given that, I have to ask who his heroes were, growing up.
“Well, definitely Harris Fountain (The Blind Boy’s arranger and Manager) was an innovator. He was a dreamer. He made things happen. He took a Blind Group from the back blocks of Talladega to Washington. We played for three different Presidents. We won five Grammy Awards. We were awarded a lifetime achievement Grammy Award. Something that was incredible, to have that leadership. We were Black, blind and getting older, but all that let me know I was in the right place. So, if you ask about heroes, then Harris was my man.”
We move on to technology. Ricky now produces the Blind Boys’ albums, so he’s the person to ask. Did he think the recording world has improved? When he started out he had to enter buildings through a different door, there were of course racial attitudes, but also segregation and discrimination towards blind people, to those with disabilities. Have things improved?
“Well, yes. Those things have changed. I can have software to read my emails now. My iPhone has software and updates. For Blind people, we can get around easier. But at the end of the day, people are people and they will respect you for your talents. And practice makes perfect, so you get as good as you can. That’s what they focus on. All that discrimination in the past was there and it still is sometimes but they will respect what you do, and that’s what really matters. It overcomes all else.”
And speaking of changes, having come from a state that has seemingly seen so much change throughout the years – Jim Crow, Civil Rights, the current Trump era etc. but has Alabama really changed? We hear about how the South is still quite ‘backward’ and conservative. For instance, we recently heard about the new abortion laws where doctors can be jailed for performing those procedures and how voting rights for ex-prisoners are still being denied through extrapolated policies. Ricky says it’s not really that straight forward.
“Oh, The South is changing, and it will even more. People are starting to move in from all over the country now. From New York and Los Angeles. From overseas. They bring their ideas and they won’t tolerate the bigotry of the past. They will see those laws and want to oppose them and overturn them. Where I live is an international city. People from all over the world live here. So, you know things have changed. It’s not plantations and farms anymore. There are big businesses and fully developed integrated communities. I live in a place called Kirkwood. You can buy a place here for a million dollars. When I first moved here it was a cheap suburb. Now even my house is worth much more.”
“I think we are seeing more equality in our community now. It’s not a thing about Black and White. You come to America, you see Black doctors and lawyers and people in all walks of life all ethnic groups. It’s not about segregation, or lost opportunities. It’s about what you have to offer. Back in the day, it was an ethnic situation. Now it’s a people situation. People make the world go around.”
And just before my time is up I ask Ricky about coming to play at WOMAD 2020.
“Yeah! We are gonna have a great time there. We played there a few years ago. People were singing and dancing, having a grand old time. So, we are looking forward to coming back. Don’t miss it when the boys are back in town!”
The Blind Boys of Alabama will be performing on 8.30pm, Saturday 14th March on the TSB Bowl of Brooklands Stage and 5pm, Sunday 15th March on the Todd Energy Brooklands Stage – both at WOMAD 2020. Tickets are still available from the WOMAD website, but get in quick as they will sell out!
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